Tea Fire Cause Is Determined

Unbelievable.

Totally unbelievable. And, totally believable at the same time.

At the height of fire season, this is certainly at the very least, felony stupidity.

Young adults, not teenagers, PURE STUPIDITY, and "daddy" should not fix it for them. They are responsible for ruining lives (and at least 1 death), for turning a paradise into hell. Committing one of the greatest crimes against nature. Negligence is just an excuse for the utter disregard of our blue planet and fellow humans. Put a fire out with water! This is a no fire zone anyway, weren't they aware? People are paying for a lesson unlearned. Is this common, by the way; are they the first group to make fires in such a high alert fire zone or is this craziness practiced by others in the area?

Westmont students... if you read between the lines "between the ages of 18 and 22, area residents" and "described them as all coming from one school". Why did they take so long to come forward? Probably waited for mommy & daddy to hire lawyers! Or didn't come forward but were found out by those that told on them to authorities. I hope that their parents have liability insurance to help with the costs from their grave mistake. I expected that we would hear it was 14-16 year olds or something. Still not okay but more understandable....

Well, we don't know for sure that they are from Westmont... could be SBCC or UCSB. It might not have been clear to them that the bonfire, seemingly put out early in the morning, was the origin of the fire, and if this does go to court, it will probably be darned hard to prove it. Who is to say that one of the 10 didn't go back and make a little fire the next day to recreate the spirit of the previous activity? Or maybe even another friend who missed the first event and recreated it for themselves in the afternoon?

This is a terrible tragedy but don't compound the tragedy by jumping to conclusions.

The moment the fire started I said the following to my wife: "I bet this is because of somebody partying up @ the Tea Gardens!"
Sadly enough, that proved somewhat true. It's the worst feeling being right about the wrong things.
I don't care where they're from, they're responsible adults & will have to face up to the consequences.
The good part is that criminal intent was not the reason, just outright stupidity.
Well, @ least they also got the suspect for the Gap Fire as well.
It won't bring the lost homes or destroyed memories back, but I hope it offers some sort of closure to those affected.
Speaking of nabbed arsonists, did any of ya'll hear about the guy on Mulholland Drive above Leo Carillo trying to start a fire on the side of the road?
Luckily, a passing motorist saw the guy trying to start a fire on the side of the road, called 911 & a sheriff's deputy chased & caught the guy. Just wondering :) henry

I'd be interested to know why their names aren't released, whereas any other suspects' names are released for lesser crimes. What's the diff here? Seems a bit duplicitous.

I know what you mean. But given the sentiments running high right now, maybe the DA felt it was better to keep the names sealed until a further date. But I HIGHLY agree about names thrown out for lesser crimes & the duplicity you feel :) henry

probably didnt realease the names because of fear of retaliation. its one thing to release the name of some guy who beats up his wife last night, but a tradgedy such as this has really angered the ENTIRE community. i'm not saying that the entire community isn't angered by some wife beater, but something of this magnitude requires a bit of protection for those accused. we have a justice system for a reason. obviously, they will announce the names in time, but they will try to wait until people's nerves have calmed down a bit. just look at some of the comments above. there is obviously a lot of hatred towards the people who are responsible for this and I dont blame the community for being very angry. but putting these kids at risk unnecessarily doesn't help anything. they will be made public in due time. although they are likely to never have to pay a dime for this (they dont have any money and their parents are not going to be held responsible for this in any way), they will have to live with this forever. my heart goes out to all who were affected, including the 10 young adults who will never be able to forget the lives they have ruined. may peace be within us all

thank you henry for finding reason in unreasonable times

Sheriff Brown's uses the words "young adults" because he knows that to say "students" automatically leads to the question "Students from what school?" His is a transparent and unimaginitive attempt to protect the school in question.

If charges are filed, then we will now soon enough which school is involved. Perhaps Sheriff Brown uses the words "young adults" because he knows a deal has been done, that charges will not be filed, and that the name of the school will therefore not be made public.

HEY INDY, stop covering for these young idiots. If this story were about any other subject, it would read "students" not "young adults". Clearly the nameless school is running interference behind the scenes to protect its identity. I can see those politics working with law enforcement, but it is ridiculous for the media (including the Independent) to perpetuate this little game by censoring itself. By calling the students "students", you raise the question "students of where?" and the school doesn't get to hide quietly.
RAY, you reported here that the fire was due to carelessness and mention twice that the students thought they had put it out. Who cares?? Again, making excuses for criminally stupid behaivor. No one should be smoking a cigarette in the foothills, let alone having a bonfire. The bonfire is the issue, not how it was extinguished.

Coincidentally, a 16 year old suspect was arrested yesterday for arson causing the Gap Fire. I can accept that there are crazy, dangerous people out there. What angers me far more are 10 dangerous students who ignore common sense and clear warnings because of their priviledge.
Our community should not be providing them with excuses or blowing smoke like sevendolphins does in suggesting defense arguments. Fire officials are forensic scientists who gather precise data. Stop making up fantasies to absolve their guilt. If they went to that bonfire even for 5 minutes, they are to blame.

You seven dolphins and goleta4life are as insane as the arsonists. How dare you walk on eggshells for these spoiled little brats. They damaged millions of dollars, an elderly man died, and smoke infested the paradise we all know and love, and almost lost. It's disgusting the way you pander off your lost values and cater to people (who cares what they're called, students, young adults--that's not the point)---they set A BONFIRE for god's sake A BONFIRE in a HIGH FIRE ALERT area---STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THEM. Maybe your friends. Their names are public information and are posted on the police blotter I'm sure! Just as drug dealers names are posted --public information. If you don't value lives and land, get out of the county. We don't need a**h*les like you around. And anyway, they could always transfer out to "save" their reputations or commit themselves for a "detox."

They haven't been charged with anything, so take it easy. When the charges are filed, if there are charges, then you will hear the names.

As for their parents, they have nothing to do with this, as they are all, apparently, over 17.

Oh, come on and stop defending these people. We don't need guards... we need PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

These "young adults" were reportedly 18-22 years old, way old enough to recognize that they were trespassing on private land. Trespassing and building a fire during FIRE SEASON two months after the tragedy of the GAP fire ALONE are grounds for criminal charges. Add in the fact that this fire caused the loss of hundreds of homes, countless pets and possessions, personal injury and may have contributed to the loss of a human life.

Let's contrast those facts and this scenerio with the POOR WORKERS who allegedly ACCIDENTALLY set off the Zaca fire while AT WORK trying to provide for themselves and their families. What happened to those men?

Hmmmmm.... spoiled, selfish, negligent kids making a BONFIRE IN THE WOODS during FIRE SEASON and the DA has to really, really investigate to see if charges will be filed, compared with manual laborers making a mistake at work where extremely serious charges were filed.

So, if we assume that these kids are culpable for starting the fire and concede that the kids are judgment proof because to date they have no assets, I say let's prosecute them and garnish a percentage of their future wages/inheritance in addition to requiring community service work with schoolchildren about the perils of self-absorption and FIRE.

My gut tells me they're Westmont students... probably the same kids who just voted YES on 8... and who will now ask a liberal community for mercy. Disgraceful!

Incredulous:"My gut tells me they're Westmont students... probably the same kids who just voted YES on 8... and who will now ask a liberal community for mercy. Disgraceful!"
My gut tells me they're just dumb kids that are going to have to face the music, regardless of what they voted for. Leave the politics of the past election out of this, it ain't the place. No insult intended, just let the justice play the way it will :) henry

I don't know about any of you, but when I was 18 I did some incredibly stupid things. No one was ever hurt, but looking back (40 years), that seems like pure luck.

It seems to me that appropriate reparation might be careers for these young people in teaching, health care or public safety.

Let's not pretend here. Never heard of any SBCC or UCSB students having a bonfire up in Montecito/Mission Canyon. Too far to drive let alone walk. The beach maybe. But hardly any SBCC or UCSB students live up there.

All roads point to : WESTMONT.

Hey Hank,

No insult intended, but you wrote basically : "Leave the politics... out of this" -- Why? There was allegedly a group of ~10 students from the same school involved -- why the refusal to disclose the name of the school? That, my friend, is a political decision. Let's gather together and protect our own.

I'm sure if there was a stabbing on State Street by a local gang, the gang would be identified within a day, if not an hour. I could almost guarantee it. So, let's call a spade a spade and not pretend that social issues (and social inequalities) have no impact on the release of information in cases such as these.

I, too, thank those that made the call!

Finally.... No on 8 * * Stop the Hate! Just for you, Hank! ;-)

Man, it would really suck to be one of those "young adults". You go to a party in the mountains, you think you put the bonfire out and think nothing of it, next thing you know half the city's on fire and it's all your fault. On top of all that, everyone in SB wants to kill you!

Yes, what they did was very irresponsible, but they are cooperating with investigators and I'm sure that means they are prepared to face the legal consequences. Nothing more can be done. Calling for their heads on an internet forum won't repair those lost homes.

Those who started the fire deserve our anger. But in two of the responses here I smell something else that's unsettling: an additional dose of anger based on the assumption that these students are children of the rich. It feels as if the authors who mentioned "mommy" and "daddy" are bringing an existing vindictiveness to this already terrible situation, probably resentment for those who have advantages because of their parents' wealth.

The 10 people haven't yet been found guilty in a court of law. We don't know what school they attend. Yes, Westmont seems likely, but we don't know. If it is Westmont, and if some or all of them have well-to-do parents, that's not the point. The point is equality under the law. That's for me, for you, for everyone.

Why make this disaster worse with assumptions that can only divide us at precisely the time when we need to unite to help those who have been hurt? The fire was an equal-opportunity destroyer. It took estates. It took cabins. And recovery will take the compassion and cooperation of people at all economic levels.

Let's not jump to conclusions. Let's focus on seeing that the legal process is followed. Let’s be alert to the tendency to demonize not just the accused, but whatever else we think they represent. Demonizing divides.

Question: If convicted.
Can the victims in a Civil Action, sue the students responsible for damages?
Including all medical claims by folks who have been experiencing upper respiratory damage, infection, mental anguish and the general expenses of the evac?
Could we file a citywide Class Action Civil Suit?

My point is that this fire, in particular is very personal and very morbid.
After all we went through as a community with the Zaca and Gap fires, has the level of awareness gone up?

On Thursday at 7pm on the 13th (the night of the fire)...a woman was going into the Vons on Victoria. She was smoking a cigarette. She dropped the cigarette as she continued up the drive into the store. The cigarette butt rolled downhill and bumped into the curb and flew into the air. It bounced and then landed in the planted side of the curb and onto a pile of dry leaves.
I ran to the planter and stomped out the cigarette butt.

Are people learning from the fires?
Is there any value in these experiences if people do not become more aware of their physical surroundings?

Does it really matter what school they are from? Does it really matter if these "young adults" voted yes or no on 8? I agree with mtndriver..we ALL did stupid things when we were 18 and when you look back on it now..you wonder how you got here! What matters is that we have hundreds of families that have lost their homes, hundreds of animals that have been lost, an elderly gentleman lost his life perhaps due to the fire, perhaps not. WHat is important is that we come together and lift those who need lifting..extend a hand..open a home..open your wallets and open your hearts. These "young adults" who are responsible for this will have their own hell to deal with and will be dealt with accordingly. Who cares where they went to school..who cares how they voted? They were stupid and careless and I am sure feel horrible and will have to live with this for the rest of their lives..and pay the consequences. Lets not get so angry with one another when we really need to pull together and try and help those who have been affected as much as we can. Its one of the many reasons we all live here..because we truly CARE about each other and our community . Be well all.

Not all Westmont students are wealthy. And not all voted Yes on Prop. 8. That said, those responsible should and will have to pay for the damage they've caused.

Emenzies, I saw virtually the same thing today. A man tossed a still-lit cigarette out his window onto the side of the road. It could easily have ignited dry brush.

It's as if these people are just living in their own little bubble of existence.

Yes, these kids are young and are probably incredibly remorseful for what happened. Some might say it could happen to anybody, but that's also the truth for things like drunk driving; it CAN happen to anyone, but that doesn't absolve the responsibility.The stupidity involved doesn't make it okay, especially when others are hurt because of it. The bottom line is that they were doing something that is illegal and quite dangerous. Once can only assume they knew better, but didn't think about it.

(I also highly doubt that if they went up there to party that they were sober enough to know whether or not they put that fire out sufficiently, anyway.)

All that being said, I feel strongly that charges should be filed. The loss of property is one thing. The possibly-related death of that elderly gentleman and the burned residents and firefighters is something I certainly hope will be addressed in the DA's charges.

Thank goodness we've evolved past public lynchings! Such anger and hatred! There is so much tragedy and heartache- yet your negative emotion does nothing but fester further. Take a deep breath, let due process play its course. Try to change all that negative energy toward the positive by doing something to help out. To err is human- to forgive, divine... Certainly they deserve "punishment" but punishment not to avenge but rather teach- so a disaster such as this never happens again.

More to the point - if they don't want to charge these people with criminal arson - surely there are plenty of other charges that can be brought up? Trespassing? Criminal negligence? Manslaughter? Regardless of intent, the fact remains that these 10 kids have changed the lives of over 200 families forever. One night of partying has left helpless victims to literally clean up a disaster they had nothing to do with creating. People need help. Demolished homes need to be cleared away, erosion needs to be addressed before the rains come, new and temporary homes need to be found, the list goes on. This entire situation makes me feel so angry and all I want to do is help my friends recover from a loss I cannot even imagine. I want to help them by making sure that justice is able to run its course - how do we make sure that they are even prosecuted - let alone prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?

Would someone jog my memory? As I recall the names of the Santa Ynez workers that started the Zaca Fire were released to the public almost immediately. Is that correct? Were they arrested? I vaguely recall seeing them in a courtroom looking pretty confused.

The felony charges were dropped last month, but they still face a misdemeanor count:

http://www.independent.com/news/2008/oct...

Keep in mind, with the Zaca Fire, we knew from the beginning what had happened, but with all focus on fighting the fire, the media didn't pay attention to specific names for weeks--the first Independent reports just called the workers who started the fire "ranch hands." The names of those who started the Tea Fire will be released soon enough.

Of course all the facts aren't know, but enough are known for folks to be rightly upset.

1) Ten adults trespassed on private land.

2) They set a bonfire (an enormous fire) on somebody else's property at a time of high fire alert.

3) They left the scene early the next morning "believing" that they had extinguished the fire even though they had no access to a hose or running water.

4) Their actions injured dozens and possibly lead to the death of one, not to mention caused millions in damage, burned down over 100 homes, and destroyed countless personal belongings such as photos, paintings, family heirlooms, etc., that can't be replaced.

5) An anonymous tipster turned them in. Not one of these ten adult's came forward on their own.

We've all done stupid things in our lives, but these people's actions are beyond stupid. They MUST be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and an example MUST be set that is remembered and talked about for years so this doesn't happen again.

Furthermore, if (and this is a big if) they are Westmont students, an argument can strongly be made to close down the school and for all land and assets to be sold in order to help pay for some of the damage the student's inflicted.

I have to respond to the last poster's ludicrous comment. There exists absolutely no argument that IF this indeed was caused by Westmont students that they should be made to closing the school down.

This was 10 individuals who were acting on their own behalf. Their stupidity and poor judgment should not be a reflection on the other 1,300 students that watched parts of their campus burn down, and the many faculty members at Westmont who lost their homes.

Even if this was caused by a few Westmont students, the rest of Westmont College was still victimized, just as much as everyone else in the Montecito community.

I understand your anger, but directing it at the College is misplaced. The only people you have a right to be upset at are those 10 thoughtless individuals alone.

If they are UCSB or SBCC student or ____ (put in your alma mater)- are some of you bloggers going to be writing the same crap? Give us a break! What I read in this blog tells me that there are some real people out there with some misguided motives who would love to burn a school like Westmont down. Maybe it wasn't the cinders from the bonfire at all. Wouldn't it have been easy for someone to use such a group as an alibi and 8 hours later drop a little match at the site?

If the students are still dependents of their parents, and some will be because many Santa Barbara college students are put through school by their parents, then they WILL be covered under their parent's liability insurance. Meaning, IF they are under the coverage, their unintentional act of negligence will likely be covered under their parent's insurance if sued by persons who were damaged. For those that lost homes or possessions and that did not have insurance, it may be neccessary to file civil suits in order to get some funds to replace your belongings. Because this incident caused us to be declared a disaster area, funds will also be released by the federal government to help families that do not carry insurance. However, in the fine line print there may be wording that the money is not a handout but a HIGH interest government loan. NOT the preferred way to go.

As the names are released, attorney's can investigate to see which students are still under mom & dad's wing and in those cases, people can file against the child/parent. For those affected, it is up to you to make sure that the people who made these poor choices pay for your damages, especially if your damages exceed what your insurance can pay.

Yes, these 10 young adults made a foolhardy bonfire. Do we know beyond all reasonable doubt that the embers of that bonfire caused the Tea fire? I don't think so, and if their are a few among the young adults with good lawyers, they might well evade all responsibility, unless their happens to be a security video camera on the area that shows no other human visitors and a flare-up of the embers after 13 hours of nothing else going on.

The ones who will get punished will be the honest, remorseful and poor among the 10 young adults who can't afford attorneys. They'll be shredded like red meat by sharks. The other young adults' attorneys will focus all blame on the honest, remorseful, and poor.

Welcome to America.

Homes in Goleta were protected by the groves of avocados and lemons, but in Montecito, people live right up against the mountains. Perhaps that is foolhardy also.

Wow, it's not suprising to see the kind of emotions being expressed here. Thanks Indy for creating this forum for expression. I cannot believe so many homes were lost. And to think it was because of somebody's carelessness is beyond comprehension. That being said, I remember being in college, and I did not always make the right decisions. These are brand new adults making their way into the world. Yes, they made a huge mistake they will live with for the rest of their lives. Have any of you ever done something stupid in college? What a horrible tragedy for everybody involved.

Given that we do not yet know that the young adults were from Westmont - this is just a thought and not to be prematurely assumed but...

What if the young adults were Westmont students? Is there a case that can be made about Westmont's rules, procedures, standard of expected student conduct and education at student orientation pertaining to trespassing and fire danger. According to Westmont's own public relations official, students have a long history of visiting (tresspasing) in the tea gardens.

If Westmont did not properly orient their new community members to the dangers and perils of the area then perhaps the institution is partially culpable.

If fire danger has not been part of student orientation it certainly should be.

One hopes these irresponsible individuals have seen the carnage and destruction caused by their stupidity. One hopes they have seen the dead and incinerated pets, the stark blackened ruins, all monuments to years of happy family living gone in a flash. Two young people are hovering near death and firemen have burned and risked their own lives because of the insanity of these few. If they are students of Westmont they need to be expelled immediately, and if not whomever they are part of their punishment should be compulsory community work, namely battling on the fire lines..

Below is another perspective that was posted on Noozhawk. I find myself having all the conflicting emotions and thoughts of so many that have posted. Brother Joseph's message below touches me deeply. I know that I am really fortunate/lucky that stupid things that I did not only as a youth - but as an adult did not result in their own disasters to others and myself. I cry at the loss of Mt. Calvary and the many homes and lives that have been so painfullly impacted. I honor Brother Joseph for being able to lift us higher than many of us seem to be able to go in this moment.

Br. Joseph Brown, OHC wrote on 11/18/08 @ 08:42 PM

If this is true, then it is very difficult for me to process the feelings. I was one of the monks at Mount Calvary Monastery. It was my home and the spiritual home of literally tens of thousands of people from around the world. Priceless works or art, books, historical treasures pertaining to the Order, archives and all of my personal possessions of the monks were lost. And this is the point at which being a Christian Monastic reaches its very core. I have to forgive these young people, AND do all that I can to help them. If I am unable to do that, then my habit, and my place in the monastery was a sham. That is what Christianity is, not Yes on Prop 8, not Faldwell or Dobson. It is forgiveness and reaching out to those who have hurt us. If as a monk I am unable to do that, then I did not deserve to live at Mount Calvary

The fact is these were young adults and we can all imagine what school they were students at. I'm sure it was innocent but there is no excuse for the blatant stupidity. Based on where this started most of us accurately jumped to the right conclusion on how this started. They were simply doing what college kids do.

Given that this is a pretty normal thing to expect from young people, it seems to me that our schools ought to make a big deal out of fire prevention. Beyond Smoky the Bear in grade school I doubt students hear much about it again. Considering how vulnerable we are the schools really need to start making this message loud and clear and amping it up once summer hits. One man is dead and two are severely burned. Given the situation with the Sycamore Cyn gate alot of people could have died. We definitely can't afford to have young people learn this lesson again.

Hmmm, I wonder how things woul have played out if the 10 adults had been 10 east side gang members?

I hope the DA does charge them to the fullest extent they can.Because they are young and made a stupid mistake is NOT an excuse.

No Westmont students have been or are under investigation. Check out www.westmont.edu. Besides, think logically about this, the entire Westmont student body is spread out right now as this is a residential campus. Arresting 10 people during this dispersion would take a tremendous coordinated effort and cause a lot of publicity. The fire-starters were not Westmont students so all of you hate mongers shut up!

Two of my friends were badly burned running from this fire. They're on life support in Irvine, and they might not make it. These punk ass kids, they're not young adults to me, should absolutely be charged, and their names released immediately. Besides the elderly man that died, Lance and Carla and their 3rd degree burns, how about the 200 homes that burned down? The massive evacuations, the Red Cross shelters? We're humans, and we make mistakes, but this is just sheer stupidity, plain and simple.

Unless you lost your house in this fire or any other Santa Barbara fire, SHUT THE F... UP! You have no clue.

Can Santa Barbara County pass a law to make it a felony to set a bonfire unless you are literally two feet from the ocean? Why would anyone even want to light a bonfire while it was unseasonably warm? I am amazed at the stupidity of today's youth. I hope they each receive jail time and millions of hours of community service to rebuild all of the lives they shattered.

While attending SBHS (80's) we often partied up at the T-Bowls and frequently saw other locals of all ages doing the same. It was a beautiful, magical spot and one that has been enjoyed this way since at least the 60's. On occasion we were run off by the sheriff but most of the time it was just a nice place to hike and enjoy the view of the city and channel. The water works and stone construction of the property really are a testament to the skill of the original builders. Obviously having any kind of fire up there is a horrible idea and I know that the sheriff and fire dept. have responded to fires there in the past. When I heard that the fire started up there I thought immediately that this would turn out to be the cause (as did all of the old friends I talked to). I remember the way the guy who accidently started the '77 Sycamore Canyon Fire (which I watched burn down my house as a kid) was run out of town and suffered death threats. This is probably why they are withholding the names for now. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and let the fire and law enforcement investigators finish their job. The people responsible are going to be held accountable and they will have to live with the destruction they have caused for the rest of their lives. I wish those of you who suffered a loss in this fire the best in the long journey of moving on.

Incredulous, save your version of hate for those who voted yes on 8, unlike myself. By the way, hate to break the news to you, but there were actually a lot of Westmont students & staff that voted against 8. But your hatred of anything that has Christ associated w/ it will always keep you from seeing that fact. It's alright, my understanding of Christian writings says you'll be forgiven as well.
But why are we wasting time on this issue when it's about who started the Tea Fire? Man, let it go to another forum on here :) henry

Thanks truthteller40 re: the possibility that it wasn't Westmont students. Maybe they are giving SBCC time to come to grips with the fact that it was their students? Or Brooks? Who knows, let's all wait for the facts and names.

There is a lot of anger and hatred in the comments I have read above. I understand that people are furious about this fire, but I believe that many of the commenters have taken this way too far. The Tea Fire was a tragedy, and the effects it has had on this community are immeasurable. However, the way in which many of you are attacking the individuals that caused this fire is out of line.
While my first question after reading this story was which school these students belong to, frankly it doesn't matter. The school did not cause the fire, and should not be blamed for it or held accountable. Calls to fine the school or shut it down are rediculous, this was not a school sanctioned event but an act of individuals who happened to attend the same school. If they had all happened to attend the same church would there be a call to shut it down? What if they all happened to work at cottage hospital? The link of the school may have brought them together, but it is not the schools fault that they were engaged in this activity.
Attacking the religious or political affiliations of the students is also out of line. Assuming they are "rich kids" and spoiled is also showing classism and ageism. These 10 young adults did not start a fire as representatives of any particular group, many of your attacks against them appear to be attacks against their peers who had nothing to do with this incident at all.
People have a right to be emotional about this, but please try to be reasonable. These 10 will have to live with this accident for the rest of their lives. They had no malicious intentions and surely the thought that their partying could cause any kind of trouble never crossed their minds. It was a very stupid mistake, but it was just that, a mistake. Their case should be reviewed in court, and go through due process. However, we should not instantly jump to the conclusion that they are horrible monsters that should be locked up for the rest of their lives. They were very likely innocent people looking to have a peaceful good time, and made a mistake that will haunt them every day for the rest of their lives.
Put down the pitchforks people.

There is a local web site set up to offer and receive help:

http://teafire.ning.com/

Doesn't anyone remember what it was like to be young and make a poor choice? These kids probably didn't think their fire was responsible for something that happened 24hrs later and in a criminal trial, I don't know if we can prove that it was the cause. Though adults, they are still young and never dreamed of the consequences their party would cause. They have to live with that for the rest of their life and I think that is punishment enough.

Also, as I recall, the weather was very cool and not windy the previous night, we had been on a cooling trend and it had even rained recently. I know the weather reports were warning us of it warming up, but that doesn't mean everyone was aware of that, and the cooler weather and rain would have made it seem like fire season was over. I remember being shocked at how warm and windy it was the evening of the fire. Yes, they were careless in not completely extinguishing the fire, but I believe they THOUGHT they had put it out, and the fact that it took 24hrs of smoldering and a drastic change in conditions to spark into this disaster seems to say that it was not extreme carelessness, just a bad judgement as to the fire being completely out.

My father-in-law and his wife lost their home and everything but what they could carry out in the space of an hour. Blame doesn't help. There is a wonderful community here that is helping every way they can, but NOTHING will restore priceless family heirlooms or ease the anguish of having your whole life turned upside-down in the matter of an hour.

What does it matter what college these kids go to? Colleges are not responsible for everything these kids do. Schools cannot and should not police their every activity. Should we be going after the store that sold them the matches? They had more to do with the behavior of the kids than the college did.

Knowing that it was not started deliberately or through horrible carelessness (cigarette etc) is a comfort to me. Let the courts do what they can (and believe me, if they can press criminal charges they will). I agree that the names are withheld to protect them (and the school) from retaliation. I can just see some idiot go and set fire to their houses in some perversion of the eye-for-an-eye justice and end up causing another out of control fire.

Send these kids up to help home-owners pick through the rubble so they are fully aware of the pain they caused then put them to work rebuilding the houses so they have to put their bodies to work fixing what they caused. That and the mental anguish and blame they will never escape should be punishment enough.

I can't believe people bringing Prop 8 into this argument.

And for those who want a class action suit... you should also consider suing the wind for being too strong, the plants for being too dry, and yourself for living in a forest that's eventually going to burn (as history has proven) without taking the proper precautions to your yard and house!

Now identified, the perpetrators should be publicly identified and charged. This will stop all the speculation, and get some facts on the table. No one should be subject to unfair accusations, but neither should they be shielded if culpable. Let the courts decide if any civil or criminal punishment is due them for their recklessness.

Obviously, these were 10 oblivious Westmont students with no regard or knowledge of the community around them. It was not intentional, but the degree of stupidity and negligence is unbelievable and deeply saddening. To me, this terrible event just shows that it is too dangerous to have a bunch of "college kids" living the time of their lives amidst residential neighborhoods and Santa Barbara landmarks. Westmont is, to some degree, responsible.

This is incredibly sad, both for the loss to so many & because of the cause.

Young people have been going up to the Tea Garden for decades. It was a matter of time before this happened somewhere. There are several other beautiful natural areas where young & even not so young people like to gather & one of them was where the Gap fire started (although this time it was arson).

Years ago I had to remind a group of not so young adults who were making plans for a full moon gathering in a remote mountain area that having a small fire was a crazy idea.

And I see people tossing cigarettes out of cars while driving up 154 all the time.

My point is that for many years I've been concerned about the general lack of fire awareness in our general community.

So many of our population includes visitors and college students & newer residents who are not as aware of the dangers as those of us who have lived through these kinds of devastating fires.

TheDriver is right about the guy who innocently started the Sycamore Canyon fire (his kite got caught in power lines) being sent death threats. The authorities advised him to move because his life was in danger.

The hatred that I hear in many of the voices here is really disheartening. It's not what will help the victims to recover from this tragedy. Of course the young people responsible need to be held accountable for their actions and to make amends, as far as possible. That's a given. But hating them and demonizing them, speculating about their political views and the rest, all that feeds is the flames of ill-will. No way that can be helpful--not to the victims, not to the community, not to the hearts of those who are raging.

Let's focus on helping those who have lost so much.

"To me, this terrible event just shows that it is too dangerous to have a bunch of "college kids" living the time of their lives amidst residential neighborhoods and Santa Barbara landmarks"

Seriously? And if it had been started by an elderly person whose walker caused a spark would you ban everyone over the age of 60? If it had been started by a 5 year old playing with matches would you exile all kids? If it was started by a smoker would you ban all smokers? Wait.. one of them was wearing a red shirt, so we should get rid of red shirts! Actually why don't we ban groups bigger than 9 people so this won't happen again!

Many people don't like having rowdy college kids living near them but don't use this tragedy for your own agenda.

The only real solution is promoting awareness, improving our technology in fighting fires and responsiveness to putting them out. Maybe someday we'll have infra-red images of all of SB and the smoldering remains of the fire would have been noticed on such a high risk day and put out properly. That is where I think our efforts should be focused.

Statement about the Nov. 18 Tea Fire Press Conference

We have been working closely with the investigators and at no time have they implicated any of our Westmont students.

Sheriff Brown is a wise man.

As exhibited here, there are those who are willing to jump to a conclusion, or worse to create a conclusion to forward a personal hate about a person or a group of people.

Lets say these are Westmont students, I read here that because they might have voted in favor of Prop 8, and because they are from out of town, the college campus should be sold to pay the victims.

What if it is not Westmont? What if it was the UCSB Gay and Lesbian Club? Should UCSB be sold to pay the victims?

Westmont as a College and the faculty have been hit maybe the hardest by this fire, and if it is caused by another group, how will Westmont respond?

Will Westmont attack them because they may voted differently at some time on some issue?

Will Westmont and those faculty who have lost everything demand - those in any way related to those who started the fire be forced to sell and give them money?

I doubt it. I think Westmont after all the pain and cost, will forgive.

Maybe Westmont is in our community for a reason. Maybe we can learn forgiveness and integrity from these young men and young women.

And maybe we can see the extreme sharp contrast to those who hate Westmont no matter what and Westmont and their students and then determine who do we want as a neighbor at a time of trouble or who we want around when we make a mistake or need a helping hand.

For me the answer is clear. I will pick Westmont, they are a bright light in a community obsessed with wealth and selfishness.

Time to back off, wait for the truth and then there are many on this blog who need to apologize if what most know that it was not Westmont students.

Will you?

My barn, having burned to the ground, I can now see the moon (Buddhist saying)
Gerry Marr taught me how to do a walking meditation at the Tea Gardens. It was [then] such an incredible place where the outside and inside could come together without seams. Now I learn of friends who have lost everything there, and why? I just cannot imagine the state of mind it takes to light a fire on a hillside in California in the fall. So many have paid the price. It's simply so sad, really, in every way.

The school the kids attend should have provided them with important information about the area, especially the danger of wildfires. Did it?

Of course everyone should know that fires are an extreme danger in this area, but we aren't born knowing that, and we even need to be reminded from time to time. Kids raised in this area probably learn it by reading and hearing stories about it while they are growing up, but it's likely that in this case some of the kids who started the fire did not grow up here.

Stella makes some excellent points! Thanks

One of the most disturbing elements is the fact that the students did not stand up and say they were involved. We have all, at some moment in life, been neglectful, been stupid, been careless.

They had to be identified through an anonymous tip. Not one of them was man or woman enough to say, "Yes, I was involved. I will accept the consequences."

What if the investigators had not received that tip? Had not found their identity? Would those involved have gone on with their lives, concealing the secret? I believe so.

Would your child stand up and admit wrongdoing? Would you?

We now know that there are ten people in our community who would not - did not.

They drove by a HIGH FIRE DANGER sign on their way up there.

"Would your child stand up and admit wrongdoing? Would you?

We now know that there are ten people in our community who would not - did not."

Actually, we don't know this at all. I could quite possibly have been one or more of them who called in the tip. It's such a tragedy - for ALL involved.

Dear gml,

Your statement "Obviously, these were 10 oblivious Westmont students" is not only ignorant, but wrong.

NO WESTMONT STUDENTS WERE INVOLVED IN THE FIRE.

This is a fact and will be announced to the press soon. I do not think the names of those responsible should be published because obviously some of you are out for blood revenge. The situation is sad enough but I feel pity for those of you who are blindly assigning blame.

I've just heard that the Santa Barbara High School District has taken up the issue of training students in fire safety.

I'm involved with one of our area Scout troops, and we spend a lot of time teaching boys fire safety: not just how to survive a fire, but where and when to light fires safely, how to extinguish them properly, and the like.

Many kids never camp or backpack growing up, so they don't have these skills. If just one or two of these ten kids had, the fire might have been doused properly, or better yet, the bonfire might not have happened in the first place.

If we educate every kid in a school district on how to handle fire in Santa Barbara, then in a number of years we will have a more educated adult population and a safer place.

"Actually, we don't know this at all. I could quite possibly have been one or more of them who called in the tip. It's such a tragedy - for ALL involved."

Yikes! I meant to write "It could quite possibly" NOT "I could quite possibly" ....

Pimms with his five reasons of ignorance, and all of you others who think you should hold the school responsible... obviously you people live in the Montecito area, or have in some way been effected by this fire. I don't know how you guys got to live in Montecito, maybe it was old wealth, maybe you won the lottery, but you obviously did not get to live in Montecito through your intelligence. You didn't earn the right to live there. You are talking about shutting down whichever school that is responsible for this fire and taking all that money and giving it to these people that lost everything to help with amends for what happened. I can't even grasp the amount of ignorance that it took to make a comment like that.

Say it was Westmont College, which has a student body of nearly 1,400 students. 10 of those students were responsible for the fire, you are going to shut down the school for a non-sanctioned event, in which Westmont had no part in, and make the school responsible. That is less than 1% of the student body that is responsible for starting this fire. You are going to blame the whole school for it? Now you please explain to all of us who are reading this incredibly ignorant posts and tell us how that is reasonable. Obviously you had time to sit down and make a numbered list of why these students should be held responsible (which I agree with, don't get me wrong) and really thought about what you were going to say, and the best you came up with was put it on the school? I am just in shock and awe at how dumb that sounds. You should be blaming the students (that is if they really are responsible, which we may never REALLY know). The rest of the 1,390 or so students that had NO PART WHATSOEVER IN THIS should not even be put in that category of blame…..

I do agree that it was really stupid to have a bonfire up there, or to even smoke up there. However, you cannot put the rest of the students in that category, because the fact of that matter is THEY WERE NOT UP THERE. They had no part in it, and you blaming them just shows your ignorance and all of us get to make fun of YOU, the person who blames all the students for the actions of less than 1% of the student body.

There is no proof that they were Westmont students, and quite frankly if it was, I am sure that the entire school would know. Secrets do not remain secrets at Westmont. What if it was Santa Barbara Community Church members? Are you going to demand that they shut down SBCC and give all of their assets and offerings that they receive from their members?

I do feel horribly for those who have lost homes. All of you who think that for some reason they should get all this money from the school are plain out dumb. There is something called insurance, and if you have a multi-million dollar home, in a heavily wooded area, that is a fire dangerous zone, and you don't have fire insurance. Then I laugh at you for being so careless. It was bound to happen. One way or another, there was going to be a fire. I am extremely sorry for those, and have been out at many houses trying to help all that I can, but you cannot point fingers and blame.

May God bless all the familes who lost homes, and may his love fill their lives.

100% these dumb asses are from Westmont. I went to both SBCC, and UCSB and I never even heard of the Tea Gardens until this awful fire started. I say let the people who started the bonfire (who made it, who lit matches, etc) do time and everyone else with some serious probation....5-10 yrs....A slap on the wrist to these "young adults" would do absolutely no justice for everyone effected by the fire....but hey, it's SB and let's be realistic. this will be swept under the rug in no time.

sorry Pimms, I meant Lars...

One assumes risks when living in a high-risk area. While I love Mission Canyon and the Mountain Dr. area, I'm glad I live on the Mesa. That said, those involved with the fire must be prosecuted to the full extent. They were trespassing, they started a fire under dangerous circumstances, and, most significantly, they apparently did not come forward on their own. It's one thing to build a bonfire on the beach--public property, fire can't spread, etc., but this is a blatant example of stupid, arrogant, and illegal behavior.

bigsunami44 -

From my earlier post. When your uninformed accusation is proven wrong, will you formally apologize to Westmont and all of us on this blog.

And I am confident that Westmont will apologize if their students were responsible, or if anyone there makes bold uninformed statements, will you big sunami 44?

To me it just looks like a lot of people have been waiting for a way to show their anger towards Westmont. If this were City College or UCSB there would be no such reaction toward the schools.

Regardless of guilt, I'm proud of Westmont College for it's positive impact on the Santa Barbara community.

As an a former student I can speak for myself and most all of my friends that attended Westmont. We didn't come from wealthy homes and most of us attended on scholarships and loans (much provided by the college).

I thank God for Westmont... and am thankful that regardless of the outcome, they will maintain their integrity and show their grace.

To those haters out there... I urge you to watch the Westmont community closely and see the evidence of grace, humilty and generosity... they embrace both those that love and hate them.

westmont should pay for it

Furthermore, regardless of who's responsible for the fire. Let's surround them with compassion and forgiveness! Of course consequences must be met...

But how many mistakes have you and I made in our lives? Too many to count. This was a foolish and careless mistake that was unintentional. What a testimony to the community and world would it be if we surrounded these poor kids in support and forgiveness. Consider the weight of guilt they are already carrying...

Consider what it is that they REALLY did. And think back to what kinds of mischief many of us participated in as "young adults".

"westmont should pay for it". I just pray people like this don't own a gun or matches!

Striker02! I just provided a link for info on the Zaca Fire. The commenter's name goes below his or her comment! I agree with you--the individuals involved should be held responsible, we as a community need to be sure everyone is educated on fire safety, and we all need to be supportive now of those who lost their homes. Whatever college these people attend has no bearing on the case.

Apology accepted, Striker02!

As a matter of fact, anonymous means anonymous, which means that it could have been one (or more) of the 10 people who were involved who called in the "tip" and simply wanted to remain anonymous to everyone, perhaps especially to the other people within the group of 10 involved.

Read all of the above. Lots of emotion out there - understandable.

Don't think wealth, politics, etc has anything to do with it.

It's also just plain and simple not correct to say "aww poor kids just did something stupid".

I consider myself a friendly, law abiding, Santa Barbara loving citizen. If I was to do something stupid like have a few beers, jump behind the wheel, and accidentally kill someone do you think there would be a tremendous outcry of "awww...he's just a nice party guy" ? Nope, my name would be released in the Independent/News Press the very next day and with the possible exception of the family pardoning me...I would most certainly pay a legal price. I see no difference here. In fact, I see a level of stupidity that reaches far beyond mine as a 20ish year old...and believe me that's hard to imagine.

At the moment our town in a TinderBox. To not realize that, not recognize the FIRE DANGER SUPER HIGH signs right down the road from Westmont, and just live oblivious and expect everyone else to excuse your destructive stupidity is ridiculous.

Frankly, if we pardoned everyone for their destructive stupidity we would essentially erase legal responsibility for just about everything.

Putting yourself in a stupid/precarious situation is fine with me. Putting others or an entire city in that situation: Not fine. My God look at all the irreplaceable homes, history, art, landscapes, and lives these actions shattered!

OK, putting my soap box away...but I live at APS and Las Alturas so I earned the right to get on the box for a minute.

I have no idea what just punishment is that preserves the lives of these adults (ie not jail)...but I'll be happy if the legal system comes up with one with one.

Anyone have any legal insight on this?

I'd like to hear what the response from the angry posters will be if it indeed turns out that Westmont students WERE NOT involved. Do you feel the same toward City College? Or UCSB? Or Brooks?

"They drove by a HIGH FIRE DANGER sign on their way up there."
Did it say High Fire Danger on Wednesday night? Or was it changed to High on Thursday when the weather heated up?
Did they notice it? I don't know that I believe those signs when I see them, I know I've seem them up on 'extreme' even when it was raining. There may actually still be an extreme danger but 'common sense' tells you that you can't start a wildfire in the rain. I'm not defending their actions, I'm just saying that they would NEVER have done what they did if they knew what would happen. It doesn't excuse their ignorance but they either didn't notice the signs or didn't think they were serious. The only way to prevent that happening again is to educate so people look for and understand what the warnings mean.

"It's one thing to build a bonfire on the beach--public property, fire can't spread, etc., but this is a blatant example of stupid, arrogant, and illegal behavior."
So if they had built the fire on public property it wouldn't seem so bad to you? What if they had done it on their own, private property? What makes you think fire can't spread just because it is started next to a body of water? If the wind blows inward there are plenty of dry grasses to catch on fire. Also, I don't know any beach around here that doesn't prohibit bonfires. Plenty of people still have them, but they think its 'safe' just because they ocean is on one side of them. The kids who started this one thought they were being 'safe' also, using just as bad judgement as those who start fires on the beach.

Put yourself in one of these 10 adults' shoes. What punishment would you expect? Financial? Jail Time? Probation?

someone wrote "It's one thing to build a bonfire on the beach--public property, fire can't spread, etc."

YIKES!

This is the very same very bad judgement that went into creating this fire!

This only underlines my earlier point about the serious ack of awareness in our community regarding fire safety.

It is human nature to trust empircal evidence, every time they saw a 'high' fire danger sign and no fires broke out, it makes them take the danger a little less seriously. Every time they had a bonfire (and I doubt this is their first) and they didn't start a wildfire, they thought they were doing it the right way. This kind of thinking is especially common in young adults.

They should face some consequences, but I don't think jailtime or even monetary punishments will do any good. We need them to feel the consequences of what they've done as badly as those who lost their homes, work on making it right as much as possible, and help educate to prevent it happening again.

They didn't understand that this is a possible outcome of what they chose to do. It doesn't excuse them from blame or punishment, but I think it makes the matter of how to punish them very different. What they did hurt several people emotionally and financially. Their punishment should be to share in that burden and work on fixing the damage. That will truly help the people who lost everything more than putting them in jail or closing a school. It will help those kids by teaching them a real lesson rather than imprisoning them and costing us more money. Then require those kids to reach out and teach other kids about the dangers and the proper precautions to take. Then there will be a real benefit/change and maybe it won't happen again for this reason.

3rd gen,
I live in the mountains and while I understand the risks, that should not include having to worry about irresponsible idiots who light campfires (sorry I cannot believe it was a "bonfire" as that would have been seen the night before) around dry brush.
The fire signs in the area have said HIGH for many weeks (probably months) and were completely ignored by this group. Anybody that would light a fire in the hills around here at any time, is not thinking clearly. Sure it was a stupid mistake, but it was mistake that affected many people and its time for them to be ready and accept the punishment. As for what school they are from, what difference does it make? These were 10 individuals acting on their own and the school should not be part of the dialogue.

If-- and I say IF-- Westmont students were responsible for this fire, the institution does bear *some* responsibility. This is a high fire area and they're bringing 1200 *young* (i.e. hormonal, naive, impulsive, sure-they'll-live-forever) people into it.

School rules ban alcohol and limit opposite sex dorm visits on campus. With these rules in place, it's only natural that *some* kids will break them-- smoke or drink or have sex off campus. The college should expect this, and plan for it. Why wouldn't Westmont safety officers patrol the Tea Garden, if it was a well known party spot?

While I agree with the Westmont supporters above that "kids will be kids," I think that the COLLEGE needs to deal with the reality that their students are human and prone to mistakes, no different than UCSB kids or CC kids.

I also agree that Westmont's orientation and fire safety programs should be examined to be sure that the institution provides comprehensive safety education: the meaning of high fire risk, the danger of sundowner conditions, the rapidity with which fire can spread in this topography, the history of local fires-- not just evacuation but prevention. The college should throroughly brief all incoming students as to the extre