SBCAG Gives Nod to Cold Spring Suicide Barrier

I always thought Michael Bennett was a sleazey guy but that comment is really low. McGinnis does not value aesthetics over human life he just doesn't believe the barrier will save many if any lives but will definitely be ugly for all of us for ever. Villifying him for his opinion is the sort of cheap shot I would not have expected even from Mr. Bennett. The notion that some depressed person will see the barrier and suddenly have their depression lift is absurd. Equally absurd is the notion that some depressed or otherwise suicidal individual upon seeing the bridge will be suddenly seized with the idea to jump. Where there's a will there's a way. This is another engineering solution to a complex social psycholgical problem.

"The meeting opened with a review of the Caltrans project and its stated goals of reducing the number of suicides from the bridge while increasing the safety of law enforcement and rescue personnel. It cited the 46 suicidal deaths from the bridge since opening to public traffic in 1963 — including three in the past year"

Obviously, the numbers seem to be increasing greatly. Once again, another idea that involves the spending of money (any oversight to make sure Caltrans and others involved dont make a nice fat profit?) without addressing *why* more people are killing themselves.

It also seems to me that if someone is so hellbent on killing themselves that they would go all the way up to that bridge to kill themselves, they would find another way to end their lives if that bridge were to altered.

Maybe if people were nicer to each other *that* would go a lot further than spending money on this bridge.

I think Michael Bennett hit the nail on the head, I've had my doubts about him too, but now he shows himself to be a stand-up guy.

The barrier prevents rather focused people from acting out a sudden idea. There is evidence that the extra time will allow them to sort things out.

Really careful planned suicides take care of all the details... they where diapers to capture leakage, take care of all the legal paperwork, etc. That is not what jumping off a bridge is all about.

We spend $40 million a year on mental health in this County. There are ample resources for anyone who puts a slight effort into looking.

anyone who watched the hearing knows that Bennett was merely throwing McGiness' words back at him. Watch the replay Saturday or Sunday evening on Ch 20. Listen carefully.

I am so so so glad to hear that the Suicide Prevention Plan is a go. I hope that no one has to suffer the pain of losing a loved one from that bridge. I know how difficult it has made my life, a struggle I still deal with 7 years later. Its about time that some action is in the works. I am thrilled to hear about this!

UCSB Professor Garrett Glasgow, whose recent studies have called the efficacy of bridge barriers into question, spoke after McGinnes during the public hearing portion of the meeting, calling the Caltrans proposal a band-aid solution. “This steel barrier idea is a war on suicide that doesn’t address the underlying illness, like the war on terror that doesn’t address our addiction to oil,” Glasgow said.

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I didn't say that -- that was actually a quote from someone else.

Amen, Noletaman. Michael Bennett is a special kind of lowlife. I think it's pretty telling that the only arguments the barrier supports can refute are the ridiculous strawmen they invent.

I second, or "third", Noletaman's comments. I think generally that arguments that the folks in favor of a barrier make might be closer to the truth if a great many more people chose to jump off places such as cold springs bridge. There was an interesting history in Hong Kong with a spike in suicides from carbon monoxide poisoning (and then in Japan) after a 1998 incident in which an individual or a couple (can't recall which) committed suicide by producing co in a small room. This is not what's happening with bridge suicides.

Come on now...was there ever ANY doubt that this barrier was going in, no matter WHAT the little people have to say about it?

Please...let's review years of similar proposals, ranging from unwanted development to proposed fees for this or that to silly legislation and beyond:

If some big developer or government agency wants something...they get it. Period.

Nobody cares about our "input" or our wishes or even about common sense and the truth.

What they care about is money, first and foremost (money stands to be made from this project) and finding a way to cram the proposed project or law down everybody's throats effectively, completely, and while looking like they are doing it for our benefit.

Remember this the next time some sleazy developer, politician or legislator comes along with a half-azzed proposal nobody else wants.

Why waste your time "participating in the process"? This is Santa Barbara County! All we are good for is paying our taxes and feeding these pigs.

Nothing changes, and they just get better at screwing us.

Dear Holly,
Please do not despair too much, and please do not give up-- ever-- in working for this and other causes in which you believe.

The effort to stop the Caltrans bridge barriers boondoggle is far from over. Keep your focus on the grace and beauty that you wish to preserve, and renew your commitment to it.

Take strength from your anger, and do not be deflected by it from your worthy work.

Thank you for your words. They help me to see clearly what else is at stake beyond the particulars of this case.

In gratitude,
Marc McGinnes

MY, my, my....
The point is even the Board of Directors for the Golden Gate Bridge took the time to sift through 20-30 research studies and came to an overwhelming conclusion that barriers are effective....Perhaps you should do the same.
~~~
You need to remember that this is a disability and public safety issue. How many of you complain about ramps and railings on sidewalks for the physically disabled?
People commit suicide in the midst of a crisis caused by a mental disability (which includes organic brain disorders and psychiatric disorders caused by structural and/or biochemical causes).
When you place aesthetics over one human life you are degrading us all. How many disabled peope have to die per year before barriers become acceptable? 5, 10, 20, 50, your son, your daughter?

This is too crazy. WHY do we need more government protecting us from ourselves? Frankly, I agree that if one is so desperate to commit suicide, chances are there will be another place to do so - maybe jumping into the Pacific Ocean and drowning as a means to end one's life... let's see - should we then we use tax dollars to provide mandatory life preservers for all beach visitors?

Let's instead be responsible for our own activity and respect the rights of others by NOT placing the burden of our private issues upon strangers or innocent by-standers. Certainly, building suicide barriers on one beautiful example of man's positive activity reflected in an engineering and construction feat will not solve the mental hazards of mankind. I personally have witnessed a person (successfully bent on committing suicide) climbing up and over a "suicide-barrier" on the I-10 in Los Angeles, and landing on the freeway next to my car. The barrier did not stop him, despite being a fixture on most overpasses.

Holly, I'm quite a little guy.

There is another explanation here, and that is: after carefully weighing the options, our governmental decision-makers have come to an entirely rational decision that the weight of evidence supports the barrier.

There are always people who disagree; that is the nature of all knowledge. And maybe even in the long run, you and Marc McGinnes and Garrett Glasgow might even be proven to be right; it has happened in the past. I personally belief there is maybe a 1 in 10 chance of that, but a 9 in 10 chance that the barrier really is the right move.

But there is a serious and compelling case with what we know right now that this barrier is the right thing.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. No need to invoke conspiracies, or money politics, or power politics. The decision-makers might just be convinced, within their poor power to see the right, of the need for the barrier.

I agree that something needs to be done to prevent suicides from the bridge and so that we (cops, firefighters, medics and search and rescue personnel) wont have to risk our lives either trying to prevent someone from jumping or doing a body recovery from down below but I also love the gorgeous views from the bridge and think that whatever barriers are put up need to be done in a fashion that will not destroy those views. Maybe it is a band-aid solution but the $40 million+ we spend on public mental health programs every year aren't doing that much to prevent suicides either so I guess we can call that a band-aid solution as well!

I agree with mayor Michael Bennett you cannot put a price on human life! Yes we also need to improve the conditions on highways 154 and 66 but that's for another discussion.

>>>>I agree with mayor Michael Bennett you cannot put a price on human life! Yes we also need to improve the conditions on highways 154 and 66 but that's for another discussion.<<<<

No, that's for discussing right now. This project is diverting $3.3 million from the highway safety fund to a project that has never been proven to save even one life. Do you really value human life, or is the real motive to make your job more convenient at our expense?

There is no shortage of money for safety improvements to 154 and 166, at the $1 million level (staff gets paid whatever they do). The problem is that a lot more than $1 million is needed, say, for making 154 4 lanes all the way, with a divider.

There is ample proof that a barrier on the Cold Spring Bridge will save lives. Of course, some people say there is no strict proof that the Sun will rise tomorrow... just because it has done so every other time doesn't guarantee tomorrow's Sunrise.

People are free to have excessive standards of proof.

You're seriously claiming there's no shortage of money for state agencies? Have you read a newspaper lately?

And no, I'm not going to debate the scientific literature with you again.

Well, you've exaggerated. I have no doubt that if 4 lives per year could be saved by spending $1 million in capital expenditure on the 154, it would happen pronto, regardless of the State government situation.

People that point out that there is no scientific proof that barriers save lives are equivalent to people that deny the sun will rise tomorrow?

People complaining about diverting highway safety funds to suicide prevention really want Highway 154 to be 4 lanes?

And then you say I'm exaggerating.

Thanks once again for demonstrating that barrier supporters are completely divorced from reality and common sense.

Nope, I didn't say people who oppose barriers deny the Sun will rise tomorrow, nor did I say they want 154 to be 4 lanes.

You said those things, Kratatoa, not me.

I do think that the anti-barrier people apply a much higher standard of proof to the case for barriers than they apply to other scientific questions. For example, the proof that a human barrier would work is no where near as convincing as the proof that a physical barrier would work.

There is no doubt that a 4-lane 154 would be much safer than the current 154. If safety is the objective, a 4-lane 154 is a rational goal. But short of that, specifically, what projects do anti-barrier people want to happen for a total of $1 million capital cost on the 154?

Oh man, this is hysterical! You forgot to switch accounts before answering me!

I think everyone already knew that all these "different people" who thought the barrier was a great idea were really just the same guy posting under multiple names, but it's so great that you just confirmed it for us.

Just for fun, I did a search of past posts, and here's sevendolphins getting busted for pretending to be two different people earlier (see the last comment):

http://www.independent.com/news/2008/mar...

and here's sevendolphins denying that he ever posts under another name (see the last comment):

http://www.independent.com/news/2008/jun...

Bye-bye, credibility!