Religulous

I wonder if Bill dared to make fun of the prophet Mohammed.

Excellent film. Maher does a great job of what he set out to do, inject some doubt into the great certainty of fundamentalist religion / non-religion. The whole point is to get people to realize that no one knows whether any particular religion or non-religion is right or wrong, but basing decisions that affect others on a belief of certainty regarding something that can not be certain, is just plain wrong. It's the "no need to plan for the future because armageddon is coming" crowd that Maher seeks to change.

Even if religion is the great "opiate of the masses" as Marx (or was it Engels?) said, it seems that we had a lot less sociatal problems when people believed it.

A Shaw is apparently so closed minded so as to not even have viewed the trailer let alone viewed the documentary. Bill Maher is fairly consistent in his criticisms of religions. If there is more of a focus on religions that do not worship Profit Mohammed it is probably because of Maher's Catholic/Jewish background.

Is billclausen's complaint verifiable; that there are fewer sociatal problems when "people believed it." My gut instinct is that the answer is no, or the answer barely perceptible. If I sample the relatively minor sociatal problems that end up as TV Judge Judy courtroom type litigants, whose necks are adorned with a crucifix, I immediately get the notion that religion does not work. Evolution does not move quickly enough for us to notice noticeable changes in "socialtal problems" in our lifetime or even compared to previous hundreds of years of our current time. Perception is probably the answer here as we usually want to believe things were better during a recent and yet simultaneously far away and different time.

As for me I will probably watch this documentary with an open mind when it airs on IFC, Sundance or etc channels.

Is billclausen's complaint verifiable

Well if you look at drunks, there are far less problems with alcoholics who have gone through AA and believe in a higher power, than problems with alcoholics who believe in beer.

I think you could add homeless to the list.

And businesses/rich people who tithe generally don't have the same amount of problems as say a bars and bar owners.

Who would you want to live next to, somebody who wishes good things for you or somebody who in interested in getting good things for himself.

Wayne has apparently missed the numerous recent spates of neighbor-on-neighbor violence that resulted in mass death: Somalia, Iraq, the middle east, Ruwanda, the Balkan states, etc. More ancient history provides an even sadder tale of religious violence. We would all prefer a neighbor who wishes good things for us and while religions preach this few in the pews get the message. Religious people are the ones who need a crutch to behave. Many of us heard the message the first time and don't need to imagine a father-figure looming over our shoulder to threaten us with eternal damnation or reward us in a fictitious after-life for doing our best to be moral and wish good things for our neighbors.

Yes Wayne and have you noticed the particular majority religion common to all of the hot spots you mention? HINT: Starts with an "M", not a "C", or is it an "I"?

By population:
Balkans 70% Islam
Somalia 100% Islam
Iraq 97% Islam
Middle East? guess..
the exception is Rwanda

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/... (scroll down)

There is a funny skit in the new movie "An American Carol" in which "radical Christians" hijack airplanes and nuns blow up buses - taking a shot at Rosie O'Donnels comment that radical Christians are just as dangerous as radical Islam. Kinda funny.

johnathan - I submit to you that "there is more of a focus on religions that do not worship Profit Mohammed" because Maher is a coward and afraid he will be beheaded. Did you see what happened when the dutch cartoonist dared make fun of the "great prophet"?

billclausen - if Karl Marx lived in present day he would observe that Television has replaced religion as the opiate of the people -

Oops- meant to address that first comment to neworion not Wayne.

By the way - there is a common misconception that Christianity is about "being good" and if you are already "good" or behaved, or follow the "Golden Rule" you don't need it - if you are a "good person" that is all that is required to get to heaven, Nirvana, enlightenment whatever you want to call it. The problem is that Nobody, save Christ himself, is perfectly good and acceptable to God, or has a chance in hell, no matter how hard they try. Not even the great AShaw is perfect (nor does he come close to claiming to be). Christianity is not about being good it is about being forgiven. It is not something we do, it is something God does - out of his love for us. Once you realize the beauty of that, the best attempt at goodness (the response) naturally follows. That's how Christianity differs from all other religions. Just thought I'd clear that up.

neworion -
"Many of us ...
don't need to imagine a father-figure looming over our shoulder to threaten us with eternal damnation or reward us in a fictitious after-life for doing our best to be moral and wish good things for our neighbors."

Another misconception - the reward does not come from being moral and doing good things for our neighbors, it comes from faith. And the proper motivation of sincere Christians to be moral and good is out of love for God, and wishing to please him because of what he did for us, not from fear of damnation or eternal reward.

Finishing off my say with these comments and with just viewing the trailer, I don't know why the author of this critique would expect a "fair and balanced" documentary that is to humorously prod the questioning. Obviously the intent of this documentary is to balance all the crap that is fed to us all directly or indirectly.

AShaw has apparently been so far submersed into the sea of "C" that there is no mention of the current crusade this decidedly Christian nation is involved in. AShaw may also want to look at more localized "C" genocidal attrocitiies. Please see >>> (http://www.independent.com/news/2008/oct...) <<<
if previous and more ancient "C" violent and deadly crusades are too far distant to research.

And really AShaw; is there any really difference to the dead or living whether one is killed by knives, muskets, measles or 2,000 pound bunker busting bombs. I don't get where the "reward" is for anyone in your above stated understanding of Christianity.

Johnathan,

I don't get your logic. You seem to suggest that if somebody has a belief they will be punished in the after life that they are more violent in the current life as if they seek that punishment.

Would you also argue that people who believe they will be punished by our government are more inclined to violence.

Would you have any data that suggests the majority of people on death role are religious, And maybe a breakdown of what religion so as to determine if some religions such as Wicca are more violent.

Maher has a B.A. and wants to teach the world.

Pardon me if I remain unconvinced of his command of the issues.

AShaw and neworion, we seem to have forgotten Ireland...

Religion as a cause for violence or peace aside- from a skeptical eye, all religions look pretty silly. It is only our own personal religion that passes muster, simply because we have faith.

The bible is a fictitious book written hundreds of years after the supposed events occurred. If this isn't ridiculous(religulous), I don't know what is. (Yeah I know, the stuff you don't agree with is "parable")

http://lukeprog.com/religion/evil_bible_...
1. God drowns the whole earth.
2. God kills half a million people.
3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
8. Amorites destroyed by sword and God's rocks.
9. God burns two cities to death.
10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
12. 3,000 crushed to death.
13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
14. Child sacrifice.
15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshipping other gods.
17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother's wife.
19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
20. The coming slaughter.

..having said that, all superstitious religions are fictitious, the ones we know about are popular because they were used by rulers to gain power. The other ones we call cults. Cults are just religions that the general population hasn't warmed up to thus they consider the beliefs weird. But they're all equally ridiculous. Should you believe in fairy tales to be a better person, and how reassuring is that if you're a grown adult that needs to believe in Santa Claus to be a good person.

Now not all religion is ridiculous. Buddhism (theravada) is at its core more like psychiatry, it provides a way out of suffering but doesn't make claims about the existence of gods. In fact Buddha ridiculed the prevalent gods of his day and rightly saw them as tools, as they always are, of control. And Buddha(not talking about the ones falsely attributed to him in later Buddhist sects) talked about the dangers of blind faith. In fact the beliefs were very similar to scientific beliefs, requiring proof before making a conclusion.

I do at least have respect for the abstract notion of a god such as in Vedanta. Those correlate to quantum theory conjecture such as multiverses. The idea of an abstract god behind everything doesn't refute science but says god is behind science, atom, everything in the universe. It doesn't talk about the earth being created 6,000 years ago, it doesn't try to fight science and deny evolution. That is at least pretty interesting stuff that says more than if you do X you go to hell, do Y you're in heaven.

So I am in no way anti-religion, in fact I love studying all of them. Every religion has its interesting parts, even Islam(sufism). If you think islam = hate you haven't seen sufism. If you read sufi poems you'll cry they're so damn beautiful.