Santa Barbara County’s Historic Oil Drilling Reversal to Be Short-Lived

Hope Firestone is proud of leaving office on such a divisive note. and what did he gain? He came into office allegedly to build bridges and help avert a county split. He is leaving with a tenuous bridge now shattered by this ridiculous oil drilling vote, embarrassing in the international attention it has drawn, and renewed calls for a county split--this time from people in the south county.
Nice, brooks, very nice

I am deeply ashamed of the self-centered inhabitants of California, particularly coastal California, who, while living in a state that imports for its own needs more oil than most countries, is willing to deny the rest of the United States access to California oil deposits that could break the Middle East stranglehold on energy supplies, while allowing the more practical (read scientifically and economically knowledgeable) citizens of the U.S. time to develop alternate supplies. Get some perspective. Do not blame the oil companies, they just explore, find, drill, pump, refine, and distribute the stuff. The demand comes from the consumer. That's all of us.

Mr. Locke--I'm confused. There are dozens of unused available oil leases off our coast. Why aren't those poor, deprived oil companies taking advantage of those? Get a grip, dude. Your (lack of) facts belie your true motives

Actually, sbsleuth99, I think it is you who need to check facts. It's not the oil companies that are deprived; it's the consumer (that would be me, and presumably you) that's deprived of badly-needed product at a reasonable price. Economics 101: high demand and low supply yields high price. Oil 101: First comes preliminary exploration, then leasing if the companies' think there might be oil, then comes more exploration to determine the actual volume potential, then comes drilling, which, if successful leads to production, transport, refining, more transport, etc. The companies are forbidden from any new DRILLING off the coast,which means no production etc. I've got a good grip, no I don't work for the oil companies, and my motives, known to me but merely an item of speculation on your part, are to encourage multiple solutions to the energy crisis using clean coal (if there is such a thing), nuclear (assuming it can be properly managed), wind power (once one figures out where to put all those windmills - want one in your backyard? - and how to move the power to market - done any reading lately? - there's no power distribution lines where the big winds blow - how'd you like a nice transmission tower in your neighborhood and high power lines overhead?), waves (once one figures out how to get the power back to shore without creating a huge electric field in the ocean - massive fishkill anyone?), solar (where to put those square miles of solar cells, not to mention that solar cells produce DC and the transmission network is designed for AC), natural gas (which is also a limited resource), and, yes, oil, which provides gasoline and jet fuel, the most efficient way of packaging energy for things that move. What we need is people and policies who think big and broad and don't look at everything through a single- focus lens. The best thing that ever happened to the Middle Eastern oil countries is the single-minded, narrow-focussed environmental movement. It's not the oil companies, making the big bucks, DUDE, it's the sheiks.

Will Pappas and Farr each make a campaign pledge that they will personally only use buses, trains and bicycles for transportation if elected?

Just because there is an oil lease does not mean there is oil. A little tired of the simplistic theory that the oil companies should use the land they already have leases for before they use areas that may actually have oil in them. Don't you think they would have done that already if there was money to be made?

Don't you think, AShaw, that the oil companies would not have paid good money if they didn't think there was oil underground in order to justify spending good money for the lease. The oil companies are not fools; you should not be one too.

Santa Barbara could be the most prosperous County in America, if it allowed safe development of it's offshore oil and gas reserves.

We are offering Santa Barbara Residents $2.50 gasoline if they allow new production offshore. see www.strategicnine.com

AMERICAN OIL AND GAS IS GOOD FOR AMERICA
If you don’t quickly develop American oil and gas resources, you, your friends and your country will be bankrupt within a decade.

Oil is still the fuel of the immediate future - you can bet on it! We must move forward to a future in which cleaner natural gas, electricity, and renewable energy fuels cars and heats homes. But this transformation will take 10-20 years. Yes we need to wean ourselves from a heavy dependence on foreign oil, but we must quickly replace foreign oil with local supplies to keep our country and economy safe.

Right now, the American oil embargo is breaking the backs of American consumers and the multi-trillion dollar domestic transportation industry infrastructure still dependent on fossil fuels.

Continuing the American oil embargo is unacceptable anti-social, Anti-American, treacherous behavior.
Change is urgently needed, or the American economy will soon disintegrate.

The United States is subsidizing a war against itself because of it’s American Energy Embargo resulting in a dependence on foreign oil, a resource largely controlled by its enemies and resulting in the death of Americans in Iraq and elsewhere every week. Readers all likely know someone who has lost a relative in Iraq.
The OPEC-Russia-chavez oil cartel is not just looting the United States, but the whole world, and will accumulate over $1.5 trillion in net profits this year. At their current rate of take, OPEC-Russia will acquire enough cash to buy majority control of every leading company in the United States within six years. And you are voting into power the very American-energy-traitors who are doing this to you and your country.

This is a direct threat to American independence. “It’s wrecking our economy,” and you are treacherously or stupidly helping them by embargoing American Energy supplies.
OPEC loves American environmentalists, its making them rich. Big oil loves Enviro’s and Democrats too because it enables them to pump less oil for more money thus higher profits.

The MMS oil lease bonus payments system, by charging billions in up-front lease bids, also keeps the smaller companies from getting access to local oil reserves and thus keeps the big-oil monopoly in place. And the Democrats encourages and applauds the process. Another reason why big oil loves the Democrats.

Geez, for 40 years we've had the most expensive gas in the state. Who in there right mind would trust the oil industry to ever make good on a promise of cheap gas for us.

The oil industry ruined Santa Barbara County oil production by allowing the 1969 blowout at Platform A, through their own careless and greedy behavior.

They still don't get it. They need to own up and take responsibility, and get off the `everyone does it, its OK, its all relative morality' BS.

petersterling's ideas are nice, but the oil companies will distort and cheat and lie. In the end all the new domestic oil will be used to power the SUV's of oil company employees and expatriot tribal leaders from Nigeria who are rich from oil bribes.

SezMe, I think you need to learn something about the oil business. Leasing means the oil companies THINK there is oil to be had. It takes test DRILLING to convert opinion to fact. DRILLING is not allowed in the coastal zone. See JohnLocke's post above for a bit of explanation.

SO RC, now that [for a brief blip in time] your buddy Caruso's plan is underway, you can focus on further trying to trash your newly-found home of Santa Barbara county? (I'm just SURE you must miss the midwest soon enough one day to move back).
Your comments about coastal zone, drilling, leases really belie your lack of knowledge about local planning...oh, but so did all your comments about EIRs in the Miramar

If you cannot see that this is a land grab by oil companines then you are simply in denial.
They want to access closer to shore land while they can, while they have cronies and back slappers in control!
8 years ago the Oil companies hit the jackpot with scum Bush and Cheney and they have cashed in ever since.
How does $50 Billion in profit sound to you? Like they are struggling? Like they are looking out for the overall good of the consumer? Not likely John!!
Hmm none of that can go into expense of exploration? Hmm none of that can go into development of alternative energy? How blind and brainwashed are we. Why can't this be the time we draw the line in the sand? Why can't this be the time we are finally pushed far enough to seriously think about changing how we use oil, about changing how we use energy. Aren't we all pushed far enough this time to tell Big Oil to go drill directly between the back pockets of their slacks!
The Oil companies and Republican leadership have been stealing/robbing from us day after day in this on going charade. They have our youth fighting in a war to secure more profits for these oil companies and now they want permission to rape the coastline where I live.
NEVER EVER EVER! I'll pay $8 bucks a gallon, I'll conserve, I'll walk, ride a bus, work from home whatever it takes to save our beaches for my grand children.
This is not our Earth, we are merely caretakers who need to save it for the next generations to come.
Mr Locke, If you are not questioning Big Oils motives you are simply being selfish yourself. What is cheaper Oil for you comes at a high cost to your childrens children!

(CNNMoney.com) -- Oil companies and many lawmakers are pressing to open up more U.S. areas for drilling. But the industry is drilling on just a fraction of areas it already has access to.

Of the 90 million offshore acres the industry has leases to, mostly in the Gulf of Mexico, it is estimated that upwards of 70 million are not producing oil, according to both Democrats and oil-industry sources.

Oil companies "should finish what's on their plate before they go back in line," said Oppenheimer analyst Fadel Gheit.

"Big Oil is more interested in pumping up prices and pumping up their own profits rather than pumping more oil," said Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass), who has co-sponsored a bill to charge oil companies a fee for land they hold that's not producing oil. "We should not even begin discussing handing over more public land to the oil companies until they first use [the land] they already hold."

Instead, they're holding out, hoping the government will open areas closer to shore that would be cheaper to work on.

Envision this, 50 to 100 more platforms off the coast, windmills lining our passes, solar panels everywhere, baby nukes, oil storage facilities and pipelines, oil tankers off shore, for what? cheap energy? we are an obese country with an uncontrollable addiction to consume everything. Don't fret, California will run out of water long before oil. See ya, got to go water my lawn, wash my cars, hose down my driveway and practice my Russian.

Here you go John Locke...
We read plenty...you are foolish to trust anything the Oil theives say
...EVER!
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2...

WOW! Whoever came up with the "woman scorned" thing never met a Santa Barbara environmentalist. Sure, let the rest of the country rot as long as SB's beaches are clean (except, of course, for the inconvenient truth of the oil seeps, according to UCSB scientists). And, BTW, advocating continuing to explore for or drill for oil and trusting Big Oil are not the same - broaden your minds, folks.

Careful, sbsleuth99, you've reduced your anonymity (with me at least) to a very small circle of people. It's not that I don't understand the planning process; I think it a shameful mess, designed as much to provide employment for certain PC mindsets as anything else. Nor am I trying to trash anything except a gross imbalance between government power and individual rights. What would be real nice is to follow the lead of a certain Mr. Obama and let debate be respectful and on issues rather than character assassination.
And regarding Caruso, what's your problem now? He gave the MPC all they asked for...

What is helping the rest of the US rot is their continued use of gas guzzling vehicles for even the shortest of trips.

BTW John, I am male..work for a fortune 100 company...that is also hurt by high input costs. What they have done is make it possible to work via computer/phone etc...just to help ease our gas usage..when we think we can actually find real solutions!

I just try to do my part...I recycle...car pool..walk or bike to the store...drive a hybred...I understand the economics pressures being placed on all of us by high priced gas.

But letting in Big Oil to drill more in the places where there are serious reprecussions from another accident makes no sense what so ever. It doesn't lower gas prices, it doesn't lessen dependence.
If you want cheaper oil in short term, write to your congressperson and aks for relief from the more than ample reserves we have saved now.

What will really lower gas prices is simply using less oil..remember your snide little supply and demand comment from above.
Heres one more for you...I will never reach across the ailse, unless its to smack an oil driller up the side of the head to get him to wake up!

Nice yellow journalism with the picture on the home page of the surfer guy with oil all over himself and his board .
That surfer guy should be fighting to do something about those natural seeps instead of surfing all day - like drill to relieve the pressure that causes them!

Repeating this comment from a previous post:
I am writing a book called "Earth out of Balance" in response to Al Gore's "Earth in the Balance" -

It's about the doomsday event coming when we allow the rest of the world to suck all the oil out of the Earth that they want, while because of our eco-stupidity, we in the US leave it all in the ground. The result is that the world becomes heavier on one side and out of balance because of the lopsided oil distribution - much like when you don't balance your tires and they get wobbly. Of course by that time there is no USA because the economy has crashed and our defense has weakened because of our foreign-dependent eco-energy policy created by Obama, since he wants us to wait until "green" energy is practical. But by then, it is too late for China and Russia, after they have invaded, to come suck out our oil to save the planet. The wobbly Earth spins out of it's orbit and cartwheels into the Sun.

Don't panic, it's just a theory, kinda like man-caused Global Warming is. No reason to over-react.

If you were here in 1969 and you remember..then you know why we cannot let this happen ever again! I was here..I remember...cleaning animals at the Childs Estate and SB Museum.

If you were not here...then you really just don't know and you might never understand...but please don't let it happen again!

And if you were here in 69 and you can still say we need to drill in the SB Channel...then there is really nothing anyone can say to you that will make a difference I guess. It pretty obvious at that point that your wallet is the most important thing to you. Let the earth rot as long as you have more dollars to spend

I wonder how the surfer dude got to the beach where he picked up all the oil? Seeing that it is somewhere around Rincon with 101 in the background I doubt he walked or put that longboard on top of a Prius. Probably a gas-guzzling 1965 pickup or Van or Willys with no smog controls and a camper shell with bumper stickers saying "Get Oil Out" and "Heal the Ocean". We are such spoiled hypocrites in So Cal as we suck most of the Oil in the country but stand firm against Oil production in our own back yard while the rest of the country suffers seriously as we go surfing...waiting for the day when all energy is green and produced in Nevada.

"whats_left": I applaud your conservation efforts, as I do mine and those of (hopefully) millions of others. But conservation will not put a significant dent in the problem and IMO using a 40-years-ago accident as justification for no drilling is just selfish and short-sighted. I love the beauty here as much as anyone, perhaps more since I've lived in some not-so-beautiful places, and do not want to see it harmed. But I also believe in progress and in man's ability to learn from history. The U.S.'s stored reserves are a tiny, tiny portion of what we use every month and releasing them might have a symbolic impact on prices, temporarily, only until the market realizes that, for example, the Strategic Oil Reserve, is the ultimate ultra-short-term supply. My supply and demand comment was not intended to be snide but rather to remind some folks that demand for oil is not created by the oil companies, but by those who use the stuff, i.e. virtually everyone. California imports two-thirds of its oil - do you really think each and every Californian can cut usage by two-thirds? And I'm sorry to hear you'll "never reach across the ailse" because until that starts to happen in a big way on many issues, this country will continue on its way to third world status.

I see no remaining evidence of the spill that happened in '69 slueth, other than a vast improvement in oil drilling technology such as slant drilling and multiple other safety measures and regulations. the ocean and wildlife do recover. Try to open your eyes and your mind and keep up with the news.

The spill in 69 was a rare accident which could not happen today with technology and regulations improved, lessons learned and slant drilling, Plus cleanup and containment technology did not exist at the time:

from http://www.geog.ucsb.edu/~kclarke/Papers...

Union Oil (now Unocal) had been granted a waiver by the United States Geological Survey that allowed them to use a shorter casing on the pipe than Federal Standards prescribed, a casing is a reinforcing element of the well that is supposed to prevent blowouts. Even though the well itself was capped, the fragmentation of the wellhead produced a disaster. Oil and natural gas broiled to the ocean surface in the vicinity of the oil platform for eleven days while increasingly desperate attempts were made to contain and stop the spill. The techniques, equipment and resources necessary to combat an oil spill of this magnitude did not exist at the time. On the eleventh day, chemical mud was successfully used to seal the cracks in the seafloor, but only after approximately three million gallons of oil escaped.

Using less oil is a great idea- except how exactly do you do that when the population is increasing faster than we can use less oil due to the increasing reproduction rate and illegal immigration?
How do we convince the other countries in the world to use less oil as they develop? Good luck with that - it's a losing battle - the increasing demand has to be met and it will not be with so-called "green" energy anytime soon.

Nor will it be with conservation -

Nice work, AShaw, but I'm afraid logic and science don't apply here. No match for the power of PC emotion.

Good point John - my mistake to believe in HOPE and CHANGE I suppose... I keep hoping they might change ;)

well, once again Messrs ASHAW and JohnLocke ruin an otherwise interesting discourse..imagine how overbearing these guys are in person???..movin' on...

Of course, we only want discourse from those who AGREE with us right, slueth? Then when we can no longer debate intelligently or come up with any facts to back up our claims, we run away and pout. This is an equal playing field, I don't see anyone censoring your comments. By the way can anyone tell me where all that oil is that we went to STEAL from Iraq?

The risk you are willing to take in no way justifies the rewards that would be realized

The top five oil companies have earned higher profits every year since 2001, which totals to a mind boggling $556 billion. In 2007, they made nearly $230,000 per minute in profit—more than the vast majority of American families earn in a year. The oil industry may be cyclical, but it has been in this high price, high profit mode ever since the Bush administration took office.
The executives trot out their standard solution for every energy problem: allow more drilling in wild, natural places. They reiterate their desire for drilling rights in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and areas off our coasts. Of course, drilling in the Arctic would do nothing to reduce oil or gas prices since it would take at least 10 years to begin drilling in the Arctic, according to government and oil industry experts. And the Department of Energy acknowledged that even at peak production the Arctic would only provide enough oil to reduce prices a negligible 50 cents per barrel.

Rather than open up the fragile Atlantic and Pacific Coasts to drilling, oil companies should begin production from the thousands of undeveloped leases in the western Gulf of Mexico. Additional domestic oil production can do little to satisfy energy demand since the United States has less than 2 percent of the world’s proven oil reserves yet consumes nearly one out of every four barrels of oil.

There is no gain in more drilling...especially the independence you are searching for...only conservation and completely changing our way of doing things is going to ease any dependence on foriegn oil...you can call me scorned..you can call me a tree hugger...but at this point I am willing to change what I am doing..and I am willing to say we can change if we want.
What will stop change Mr. Shaw is continual rhetoric like yours. Words that continue to stop change before it has a chance to materialize. The words "we can't do it" and 'it won't work" those are music to big oils ears. That exactly what they are preaching to you and you are buying every drop. They don't want you to change...because if you don't then you will always be dependent on their product. They don't want to discover a new way because a new way puts them out of business.
I have faith that we can find a new way but it has to start somewhere. For me it starts with telling big oil that this is not right, that they need to look elsewhere and put some of those huge profits towards discovering new energy sources. We need to push, pull, force and incent them every step of the way because they do not want to be any different..why should they...they own the republican gov't and are making money faster then we can give it up to them.
So on this one I will fight for change..I will do my part as well with my own conservation efforts.I will do it respectfully and consistantly.
In November we take the first step in getting America back from conservatives who don't give a d*mn. Then we can busy getting the US healthy and respected again.

I have no problem with debate..its how this great country was formed and how our greatest problems will be solved.

Facts come to the top and liars and frauds are exposed during discussions. Also greed becomes evident and those who are guilty of such are shown for what they truly are.

When I reach across the aisle..the smack is to wake you up...you are backing short sighted money hungry corporations who give absolutely no care to anything but their current and continued profits while leaving the earth crippled along the way.
Have you ever seen an abandoned strip mine...some one along the way thought that was a great idea to have energy independence and this was a fantastic way to go. Unfortunately no one was there to foresee just how bad things could be. Those who could money from it did and ran away leaving yet another scare for future generations to heal.
Fortunately, today we do have people who are mindful of the potential dangers and catastrophies. Those voices will rise and the right thing will be done.

No matter what becomes of the drilling issues in one of the worlds most beautful places. We need to move as fast as we possibly can off the usage of oil. Whether its US or foriegn produced. That change can start to happen now...but only if WE take the first step.

"I see no remaining evidence of the spill that happened" go back to where you came from KOOK!

The oil companies will say they've got better technology for preventing new oil blowouts similar to the 1969 Platform A blowout.

If they have that technology, the only reason is that environmentalists have pushed them for years. Why don't they thank the enviros?

In reality, if the enviros blink for an instant, the oil companies would revert to the absolute cheapest and most dangerous technology they could find. That's called the profit motive. Good old American capitalism.

Mobil wanted the South Ellwood Fields' 100 million barrels in 1995... that oil, under State waters, is totally owned by the people of California. They were turned down and now the 100 million barrels has appreciated in price by a factor of 5. Thank you, enviros, for earning so much money for the people of California!

Guess what. Wait another 13 years, and the South Ellwood oil will appreciate another factor of 5. Not drilling oil is the best investment that California could ever make!

Of course the oil companies want to drill our oil so they can pay their executives $100 million/year salaries.

If the oil companies really want our oil, let them accept TOTAL OVERSITE OF EVERY BIT OF THEIR OPERATION BY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICALS, AND LIMITATION OF THEIR SALARY STRUCTURE SO THAT NOBODY MAKES MORE THAN THE ACCEPTED SALARY OF THE GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA.

If the oil companies don't agree to that, they are trying to screw the taxpayer and are not committed to serious energy solutions.

Ashaw, may oil gush from your plumbing and cover your home, family and the things you cherish. It's clear your a landlubber, Texas needs you AS.

Show of hands. Who is Born and Raised in Santa Barbara? Every one else go home.

She-it howdy ! You folks fum out hea' sho aint friendly likes us folks fum Texas is and you soo much smatah than us bumkins funm texis Now how bout ya'll sharing some o' that black gold wif us we dont got much back down whea we cum fum then all have y'all ovah for some Texas tea

I'M BORN AND RAISED IN GOLETA YOU BIGOTED MORONS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN AWAY FROM HOME after growing up surfing THIS LANDLUBBER STARTED WINDSURFING IN 1978 BEFORE ANYONE KNEW WHAT IT WAS unlike you I don't identify myself with it - surfing is not my proudest accomplishment - then unlike you apparently I went away for an education for a while and came back WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT TO KNOW? When it has to get personal and insulting and judgemental and turns into a "locals only" fight you have lost the debate... quit while you're not ahead you're only showing your ignorance.

Uh, I believe it's still sitting in the ground because the insurgents destroyed the means of drilling and transporation. So now no one gets the oil and Iraq doesn't get the revenue.

Apparently sleuth99's definition of an interesting discussion is one in which all participants chant the same tired old PC crap over and over and over..... I don't think you'll find a fact or a citation in any of sleuth99's posts, just lots of diatribe and insult...

whats_left and sevendolphins - thanks for intelligently and rationally presenting your argument.

Lord, AShaw imagine if these were the people that were allowed to make policy decisions for this country - and they're allowed to vote with those brains?

So then when we finally get to steal Iraq's oil we won't need to drill here? Great! Problem solved...thanks Pres Bush everybody's happy.

whats_left and seven dolphins actually make some very good points - believe it or not I am an environmentalist but one with with REASON. Rampant capitalism unchecked by environmentalists will indeed ravage the earth - for proof just look to China, and I do appreciate what environmentalists do. It is when they become unreasonable and extreme that I have a problem. For that reason, of all of the countries (Vietnam, China) that are ravaging the gulf coast and drilling who should be trusted most? The USA BECAUSE of our environmental regulations. Instead we are unreasonable and allow no drilling - leaving it to less environmentally sensitive and regulated countries instead. This enviro-extremism is unreasonable when only OUR country suffers and sacrifices for it.

Since the oil companies have been pressured to take extreme measures of safety by environmentalists and develop new technology as sevendolphins mentions - isn't it unreasonable not to let them use it and go to the extreme of no drilling at all? How about a compromise here? The beauty of our country is we can achieve a balance between rampant capitalism and extreme environmental protection. In other countries it is only rampant unrestricted unregulated capitalism. I fear it will go too far to the extreme of environmental protection and economic ruin, meaning we no longer have a country or environment to protect, or a country at all for that matter when we become so weakened economically and militarily and then just another third world country to be invaded by tyrants and commmunists, which is already on its way to happening.

J and A
Guess what..I too am born and raised in Goleta..went to SMHS actually...wow wife went to DP
My mom and grandmother were born in a little house on SanPascual. In fact my mom went to SBHS and UCSB when it was still up on the riviera...what a view the islands must have been back then..just land, ocean and islands.
Hmm, my mom can even recall a time way back when she used to walk on East beach..there was no tar at all...hmm guess natural seepage started later huh?

But actually..I left SB went to school in AZ..masters in Chicago IL. My company has sent me to live and work in Dallas TX, Philly, PA, even Oklahoma City.
And what I have found is most people think Cali folks are idiots, nuts and weirdos. They think we are hugging trees and and care more about wild life than people. What I also found is most of these people have never been to Cali...never seen a pacific ocean sunset and seen the difference when there a flipping oil derrick or when there is not. They don't give a Rats A about us.
Well guess what..I care about where I am from and where I live...and it matters to me that we do not let anyone else come in here and rape and pilage our coastline.
John....I am intelligent ..and I definitely vote. I make policy decisions with my company and they are always with the bigger picture in mind..not just profit.
I am a liberal throughout...and extremely proud of it..
Big business has a responsibility...Big Oil has not lived up to that responsibility...its integrity is laughable...and record disgusting.
John and Mr. Shaw I don't have to question your heritage or birthplaces...they do not matter to me. I also need not question your character..you have done an extremely wonderful job of show casing exactly what is important from your perspective.
I would have applauded you for not going into the low end and answering attacks..but I understand your from the right and its hard to resist politics and slinging as usual.

You have every right to think and feel as you do, It is just my opion that more drilling as a solution is misguided, shortsighted and fundamentally flawed. But again its your opinion and your beliefs..and I said a few months from now..the 8 years of garbage will end...the world will soon become a better place. You will get a chance to see that the world can improve....don't give up on your hope for change..you still have time to do both!!

Good for Pappas and Farr! The environment comes before the economy. In fact, there can be no economy if we destroy our environment.

Easy to say the environment comes before the economy when your livelihood doesn't depend on energy prices or you are independently wealthy jgzeger - tell that to an independent truck driver or an aircraft mechanic or a flight attendant.

The oil bosses who pushed their employees to scrimp on care and safety in 1969 on Platform A are to blame for the economic difficulties. If the oil industry was not so criminally corrupt, we'd have cheaper domestic oil. It was a Chevron executive, I believe, who said he'd rather do business with the North Vietnamese and Nigerian thugs than to respect good old American town-hall meeting democracy in Santa Barbara County.

The mechanic and truck driver could go back to college, graduate, go on to get their masters and get a job that is not dependent on energy before they will ever get any economic relief from any new drilling in the artic or our coastline.

10 years for the Artic to start its contribution and thats a heaping $.50 cents a barrel...the SB coast has such a low rate of oil compared to world deposits and our usage they would never see any real impact.

So yes those professions are hurt by this painful economy, but drilling isn't going to give them any kind of new found economic status.

whats_left: Coming from an avowed liberal your statement that you "understand your from the right and its hard to resist politics and slinging as usual" is in itself politics and slinging. I think you've missed some key phrases regarding 'balance' in some of our previous postings. Extremism in any cause is not attractive and of questionable benefit. John Adams was solidly against the idea of a two-party system for just the reasons we are seeing today - labelling and slinging instead of intelligent debate on issues. If my heritage is of no importance to you, then why do you spend two paragraphs on your own heritage? Should it be important to me? It may be relevant to your views on this issue, but not relevant to the issue itself.

Oil Man: Very interesting post. But I keep reading about huge and economically feasible oil deposits not only offshore, but also in shale and sands. I'm not an oil man, but do have a scientific and economics education, and I seem to recall that steam extraction beccomes doable above $60/bbl?

the purpose of my not caring about your heritage was..."I would not question it like others did" in that way it was not important to me" because I was not going to attack it.
Whether you were from here or there..it was not as important as the view you had.
Sorry it is sometimes hard to convery verbiage and emphasis as well as facial expression in writing (at least for me)

And as for slinging that was just a fun jab a AShaw for falling into such a poor arguement as
"everyone from here raise your hand" to be offened by something so sophmoric..well if your skin is that thin..thats comical

You want balance...great...but this is a very misguided attempt that yields nothing that will impact any decrease in price..any decrease in dependence...any increase in any ones lifestyle but Big Oil...and only them...
It is simply a land grab by an industry that can see its downturn by the writing on the wall....it is the cigarette industry of our generation.

It is a bohemuth who has lied, cheated, and swindled everyone and everything that it comes in contact with.

To know the charcter of Oil Men you need only look at the scum bag VP. the Pres and the Presidents family...Oil through and through and dirtier then a rag used to clean a drill bit.

And you want to let them in further to the channel islands. Balance or no balance....why would you let a known crimimnal into your house?

John I copied it for you so you may read it again
with some background hopefully you'll see it in a different light

John and Mr. Shaw I don't have to question your heritage or birthplaces...they do not matter to me. I also need not question your character..you have done an extremely wonderful job of show casing exactly what is important from your perspective.
I would have applauded you for not going into the low end and answering attacks..but I understand your from the right and its hard to resist politics and slinging as usual

Oh one more thing before I am back to work...
While you find yourself deeply ashamed of us who are merely trying to save something from destroyed by those who do not and will not ever care (remember the strip mines)

I am extremely proud of all those who question authority..all those who question big business motives...all those who question an executive branch which is in bed with a specific industry.

Not sure if it was Adams... Locke or someone else..I'm sure you will correct me...but I do know the saying
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" and you are buying into the corruption that is as clear as the $4 a gallon sign above the pump. The industry is wrought with corruption...I don't know maybe Haliburton hasnt made it to your stack of readings yet.
And all for the sake of balance..you want to let those bottom feeders attack our ocean bottom....amazing!

Lord, AShaw imagine if these were the people that were allowed to make policy decisions for this country - and they're allowed to vote with those brains?

John,
Nice sling from above..too funny...those who doth protest too much...hmmm..and people in glass houses!!!!

Remember..when it gets personal..then its not debating anymore now is it...

I gotta go read some Coulter, Hannity and Limbaugh so I know how to be fair and friendly...

yeah so AShaw i for one have too left Santa Barbara. Lived in S.F. 4 yrs and in AZ for 5yrs. So yes i have left SB for sometime now. And its not about locals only. I just get tired of people the live in SB that are fake. Why should UCSB kids get a vote on matters? They are gone in 3-4yrs and we are left with the crap. And please tell me what does illegal immigration have to do with this topic?

Off to see the Wizard, has a"sale" on brains. Let's face it we all love this place and I can't help my extreme local attitude. It's been bred into me since 1830. I will say there are solutions, but using the same "playbook" year after, year isn't working. Economies change, period. My family went from ranching, to farming, to building, to education, to surf bums. New energy technology will be our new economy, it's just still in diapers. We will either, lead, follow or stay stuck in the "tar." It's a basic human right for the next generation to have a clean environment and good health. If you haven't been in the ocean lately, go jump in, it's what runs through your veins.

Guess I'm not ready to tar and feather the entire oil industry because I don't like Bush, Cheney, et al. The 'balance' I refer to is a balanced approach to energy: conservation, wind, waves, and solar when and where they make economic and environmental sense, nuclear and drilling under proper management and regulation. Mistakes of the past can be corrected.

Gotcha RunningCrew - but don't make assumptions about people. I have lived here over 30 years not including time away.- I agree about the UCSB vote or the transient vote - but don't so easily throw me into that category.

Regarding what illegal immigration has to do with this topic -
Rapid population growth has everything to do with increased demand for energy. The increase in demand due to population growth certainly out paces what little gain we can achieve through conservation. There are diminishing returns, so to think conservation is a short term solution is laughable.

And what is the largest contributer to population growth? Unchecked illegal immigration and a high reproduction rate due to the culture imported from Mexico, where many children is the norm and the environment is not at all a priority among the poor. I have watched uncaring illegal immigrants with Taco trucks emptying their cooking grease into the drain at the local hand car wash, I have watched laborers crap in the creeks rather than use a porta -potty. For the reason that third world inhabitants are not educated about environmental effects of their actions, and the fact that they don't care because making a living is first priority, poverty contributes to environmental degradation. Illegal immigration imports poverty, and more people who don't care about environment and don't teach their many children. Predictably , I will be called a racist for observing and relating the truth.

No argument lordleadbetter - I have watched the place degrade too. If you ask me, it is not due to UCSB students who come and go, but more to unchecked illegal immigrants who come and stay and reproduce rapidly. New energy is great but it will never replace oil and the increasing demand for it. As a simple example, how do you create a solar or wind powered airplane? I say do both ASAP. Explore all the options for domestic energy it's not one or the other. If "green" energy someday makes oil drilling obsolete then great! So far it hasn't happened and it will not anytime soon. Oil is here today let's use it.

"The mechanic and truck driver could go back to college, graduate, go on to get their masters and get a job that is not dependent on energy before they will ever get any economic relief from any new drilling in the artic or our coastline."

whats_left who is going to drive the trucks in the meantime and then after that economic relief comes when all the truckers become doctors and lawyers? The Mexican Trucking companys we are letting over the border thanks to Clinton and NAFTA? Are we going to pay illegals to be aircraft mechanics because it is all we can afford? Who is going to pay their bills while they retrain? Don't you think if this were so easy they would have chosen something besides truck driving as a career in the first place?

Perhaps we will not see immediate relief in energy costs but watch the Dow Jones take off with the new found optimism and confidence in the economy when we decide to begin it!

That is the economic relief that will keep them in business in the meantime.

NAFTA ,errrrrrrrrrr. We all know what's bringing the middle class down, "the truth needs no apology." Looks like the feds grand design is to render us obsolete.

Very early in the environmental movement, Zero Population Growth was one of the primary tenets of the movement. Then, I guess, it became politically incorrect to point out specific groups that had very high birthrates and call them to account for their influence on environmental issues. AShaw again makes some good points, and yes, I'm sure will be called a racist and worse simply for pointing out the facts regarding birthrates among a certain part of the population. But s/he is dead right on this one.

wow..now its the Mexicans fault...I mean really...you want to blame the Mexicans...you are truly amazing.

The hispanic influx is definitely effecting the population growth in CA. But how you could ever make the leap that they are somehow the reason we have high gas prices is truly remarkable.
You make a racist remark like that and do the usual right wing turtle approach..."don't call me a racist"...truly perfect right wing political rhetoric execution.
They are not the main reason we have increased demand. They are not even in the top 100 reasons we have higher fuel costs.

If you really want an actual villian beyond the Oil Companies themselves for higher costs right now you need look no further then Dow Jones and the traders who have cashed in on market futures speculation. Toying with the price per barrel and buying/selling futures with no concern on how their actions are effecting overall economy.

You know there have been lots of societies that have tried to pick on one culture to blame for their current problems. maybe you can relate to a certain european country somewhere around the 1940's.

whos going to do those jobs that are below you Mr. Superior Locke and Shaw once you move them back to whence they came. Which was by the way California originally before we stole it from them.

Your comment on blaming a certain nationality is not just racist..its downright deplorable and dangerous!
Your type of bombastic BS and thought process has gotten people murdered in places like Hazelton PA. They wrestle with immigration just like we do and the racism there has led to three different beating deaths (White on Brown)

You have loss focus so bad on the original debate you are no longer worth the time for discussion. Adios Amigo's

November...the right wing rein of terror comes to an end..and this is exactly why you need to go!

Damn, whatsleft, I thought we got past the name-calling, but apparently in your mind pointing out a factor of population growth (just look a the data, please) as an effect on environment makes one a racist. First of all, who said anything about Mexicans? You did. The racist card has been so over- and inappropriately-played by so many people in so many situations that it has no meaning. Your reaction supported my argument, which, to be clear, was that ZPG has been dropped from the environmentalist's agenda because it leads inexorably to some un-PC conclusions.

A Shaw said Mexicans
Do you actually read..or are you the typical poster who only scans and picks whatever spots they think will work to back their pathetic arguement
READ your fellow drill for oil blame the immagrants partner,,,here I copied it again so you have another chance:

And what is the largest contributer to population growth? Unchecked illegal immigration and a high reproduction rate due to the culture imported from Mexico, where many children is the norm and the environment is not at all a priority among the poor. I have watched uncaring illegal immigrants with Taco trucks emptying their cooking grease into the drain at the local hand car wash, I have watched laborers crap in the creeks rather than use a porta -potty.

Complete with mentions of Taco Trucks...and you agreed...absolutley dispicable..but oh so typical

This is not racial on my part. My interactions with dozens of local Hispanics as regards friendliness, work ethic, honor, trust, truthfulness, etc. are all extremely positive. And, FYI, many of them, having gone through the process of becoming citizens, are extremely unhappy with illegal immigration and its impacts - so they must be racist, too, by your measure, right? Just read the data on birth rates and immigration, please. If your mind is open to facts, you might learn something. One more thought: if you are willing to condemn the entire oil industry based on the acts of a few, isn't that it's own form of "racism"?

Oh, and I never said the Mexicans caused higher gasoline prices. I said that the environmental movement originally included ZPG as an objective, realizing the direct impact that population had on environmental issues, and I proposed that ZPG was dropped from the environmentalist movement when it led to certain data and conclusions that people such as yourself would deem racist. Perhaps it is you who should read more carefully. Again, cut the volume and scorn and read the data.

Aww so...the fact white folks like your VP wanna be..who has 5 children and preaches nothing about birth control..hmm she should not be held accountable for having more kids then average...Only the immigrants should answer to this charge.

Heres a fact for you...if your black or white...someone in your fine family was an immigrant.
Most came here to better their lives..some where just plain forced...but if you had it your way we would boot em all back because they are making it to expensive for you now. What do think your food might cost if a migrant worker wasnt working those fields.

To blame immigration for high priced oil is like blaming immigrants for an increase in white collar crime.

Yes both may be increasing, but they are not necessarily working in tandem.

Upper Middle class across the US who refuse to car pool and are much happier sitting all alone in their SUV are pushing demand much higher rates then migrant farm workers.

Aww and thank you for letting me know I am indeed the racist..I forgot I was talking about Big Oil and their Taco trucks...wow..you are so very kind to point that out to me.. I am indeed forever grateful...

Aww the RIGHT..they never actually are ...but they will BS forever trying to make you think they know something...its comical..but slightly annoying at the same time.
But..you need the assistance to help you grow past it.
Thats what Liberals try to do..Help..whether youre a new immigrant..or just simply one who has forgotten he came from somewhere else originally and no longer wants to lend their hand.

Now..once again to get you back on track...Drilling for Oil in the SB Channel and in the Artic will do nothing to lessen our dependence on foreign Oil...it will do nothing to lower the price of gas...it will not provide any short term relief in any way...its a risk...its not a needed risk since the reward is minimal at best.
It is simply a ploy by the leaders of Oil and the Republican executive leadership to get their opportunity to access land when they have 90 million acres already available to them. Land and Money are power.The Oil industry knows that and are trying to get as much of both as they can. AND Its the wrong thing to do! It is based on their greed..not on making things easier and cheaper for you. You will never see one cent of relief from their drilling. But I bet you will see a nice little increase in that "Natural Seepage" that ends up on the beach.

whats: There are none so blind as those who will not see, none so deaf as those who will not hear. Your brand of disparagement and insult is exactly the opposite of what Obama would have us do to reunite this country. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor - drop the self-aggrandizement and name-calling and do some fact-based research on energy AND immigration (and once, again, for those so deaf they will not hear, I did not connect immigration with gasoline prices - you did - and I disagree with you). Good bye.

Aww feelings hurt Mr. Locke....Ask Mr Shaw how the mexicans feel about being blamed for all of the increase in population as well as everything else you try to pin on them...when all they are trying to do is better their lives for their families..you might see some folks with hurt feelings there as well

Not conditioned to someone actually speaking up to you and AShaws drivel!
Thats ok you'll get used to it...the Republicans final hurrah is coming...real leadership is on the way!

Go find a compassionate conservative and cry me a river..Oh and don't let em drill in it OK.

Thank you Mr. Campbell
My apologies..
I'll leave quietly and head on over to
"Old legends come to town"
Can't imagine the conversation can get too heated when the topic is Willie Nelson and Bob Dylan

Actually, Randy, one of us is trying to debate policy using logic and citation but whatever...clearly a waste of time....

Oh you'd be surprised whats_left... Just look at what spewed out after this seemingly harmless Jack Johnson piece.

http://www.independent.com/news/2008/aug...

wow..I hadnt realized I was actually talking back and forth with Sean Hannitys and Ann Coulters love children...lol...
how can you be pissed at someone who sings about Banana Pancakes

Can't stay tonight..theres this really funny reality show about an Alaskan governer trying to claim she is experienced enough to run the USA....and she hanging out with this old guy who looks like he might doze off at any moment and have his head hit the little red button...

Should be fun...heard they are going on tour trying to convince people the last 8 years have been the best ever

What did I tell ya? Say "illegal immigant" and it gets changed to "immigrant" and "Mexican" and you instantly become a racist. Yet,the term "illegal immigant" is not the same thing as "immigrant" and either can apply to any race or nationality. "Mexican" means a citizen of Mexico - not a citizen of the US, it does not mean hispanic or Latino. See how the lines get blurred by the lefty PC crowd? I had to step back from that predictable bomb and watch it go off - always from a left wing presumably whitey - thanks for the demonstration of PC madness whats_your...

Enough already, stop blurring lines of distinction to relieve your white guilt and attempting to intimidate free expression. Nobody has issues with legal hispanics or latinos. Ilegal immigrants or Mexicans here illegally yes there are problems with that. Mexican or "illegal immigrant" is not a RACE it is a status..you water down the meaning of racism at everyone's peril.